AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, “War, Peace and the Presidency: Breaking with Convention.” I’m Amy Goodman.
As the Republican National Convention enters its third day, we look now at how Donald Trump is trying to increase his appeal with Black voters. During the first presidential debate, Donald Trump slammed President Biden for allowing migrants into the country, claiming they’re taking, quote, “Black jobs.”
DONALD TRUMP: The fact is that his big kill on the Black people is the millions of people that he’s allowed to come in through the border. They’re taking Black jobs now. And it could be 18, it could be 19, and even 20 million people. They’re taking Black jobs, and they’re taking Hispanic jobs. And you haven’t seen it yet, but you’re going to see something that’s going to be the worst in our history.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re joined right now by Howard University political science professor Clarence Lusane. His latest book is titled Twenty Dollars and Change: Harriet Tubman and the Ongoing Fight for Racial Justice and Democracy, also author of The Black History of the White House. His piece in The Nation is headlined “Don’t Believe Trump When He Claims He’s Not Racist: Trump does not deserve a single Black or Hispanic vote. Nada. None.”
Professor Lusane, thanks for joining us again on Democracy Now! Can you talk about the point that he is making — we just had a long discussion about immigration — President Trump pitting Latinos, immigrants against African Americans in this country, and the significance of this?
CLARENCE LUSANE: So, thank you for having me.
So, as your previous guest just pointed out, it’s important to know that this idea of a replacement theory, that whites are being threatened by these cultural invaders, is something that the Donald Trump wing of the party has been using ever since Donald Trump stepped onto the national stage.
The article I wrote in The Nation was to point out that we don’t have to memory hole what Donald Trump’s history of racism has been, but, more importantly, also who has supported Donald Trump. Ever since he stepped onto the stage, every avowed racist in the country — Ku Klux Klaners, neo-Nazis, avowed fascists — have backed Donald Trump. And he’s been able to get away with that kind of support, because in many ways the media has evaded questioning him about that.
But this has become the way in which the Republican Party in 2024, a party of grievance, extremism and racism, operates and functions. And so, it’s really critical to not let this memory be lost of Donald Trump’s policies and behavior over the last number of years, and how that has permeated the Republican Party.
AMY GOODMAN: As you point out, in a recent interview in Time magazine, Trump suggested the problem was really anti-white racism. “If you look right now, there’s absolutely a bias against white [people] and that’s a problem,” Trump said. Your response, Professor Lusane?
CLARENCE LUSANE: So, Trump again is leaning in to his base. And what the data is showing is that for at least the last 10 years or so, if not even before then, that a majority of whites, and particularly Republican voters, believe that racism in this country exists against white people, that Black people, that Latinos, that Asians basically do not have issues with institutional or systemic racism, but it’s actually whites that are being targeted.
And this isn’t just kind of rhetoric. This is actually manifesting itself both in the Republican Party platform and Republican Party activists. Stephen Miller, for example, who your earlier guest referenced, heads up America First Legal. Its entire purpose is to go after what they argue are racism, racist attacks against whites. So, America First Legal has filed lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit against private sector entities that they claim are discriminating particularly against white males.
And so, when Donald Trump says that anti-white racism is actually a thing, he is very serious that his second administration, if he comes to power, will operate on that. He has pledged, for example, that he will end every DEI — diversity, equity and inclusion — program that exists anywhere in the federal government. Now, that’s not just talking about specific programs about diversity; that’s talking about any effort in any branch of government to recognize that there needs to be inclusive hiring, there needs to be inclusive policies. So, this is a very real tactic on the part of Donald Trump.
The problem is that it actually conflicts with what they’re trying to do and win Black voters. Donald Trump recognizes that in the swing states — in Georgia, in Michigan, in Pennsylvania, in Wisconsin, in all of these key battleground states — the Black vote has been extremely decisive in helping the Democrats. So, they have to figure out a way to either drive down the vote for the Democrats or, if possible, if they can win votes. But that’s very difficult to do, given Donald Trump’s record and history.
AMY GOODMAN: On Monday, Democracy Now!’s Renée Feltz was on the floor of the convention. She spoke to a man wearing a large cowboy hat who was attending the RNC with members of the Florida delegation.
LARRY WILCOXSON: Larry Wilcoxson, from Florida.
RENÉE FELTZ: And are you here as part of the delegation?
LARRY WILCOXSON: I’m just here.
RENÉE FELTZ: All right. Can you say a little bit about why you’re here?
LARRY WILCOXSON: I’m here to support the president, Donald J. Trump. That’s the only reason why I’ll come here.
RENÉE FELTZ: It sounded like he might have even been talking to people like you, his supporters, when he spoke about preserving Black jobs. Can you talk about, you know, what that might have meant to you? And what’s the difference between Black jobs and other jobs, for example?
LARRY WILCOXSON: See, I think a lot of stuff be taken out of context. And what he mean was just mid-level jobs. I mean, and that’s just the truth, mid-level jobs as far as, like, trades. Those are mid-level jobs to me. And so, that’s what he meant. And, yes, a lot of illegals are coming over here, a lot of migrants coming over here, and that’s the jobs they’re getting, because a lot of our own employees’ employers, they’re hiring those individuals for cheaper wages. And that’s just the truth.
AMY GOODMAN: Your response, Professor Clarence Lusane?
CLARENCE LUSANE: So, when Donald Trump refers to “the Black people” and he refers to “Black jobs,” what he said is that his view of where Black people fit in this country, in employment, in culture and otherwise, is always at the bottom. Donald Trump never has anything positive to say about the Black community. He never talks about Black doctors, for example, or Black engineers or Black accountants or Black people who are in many, many different professions up and down the spectrum of employment. He essentially sees, through racist-tinted eyes, Black people at the very, very bottom. And that’s how he sees immigrants, or, to be more precise, immigrants of color. And so, that’s the conflict that he’s trying to pitch.
But what the data shows, of course, what the Department of Labor shows, is that in every single area of occupation, you have Black people, you have Latinos, you have Asians, kind of across the spectrum. And so, Donald Trump, though, feeds into this narrative among conservatives that there are categories of work for certain people, and that that is how he then seeds attacking immigrants and creating, again, this conflict between the Black community and the immigrant community.
AMY GOODMAN: On Tuesday night, Democracy Now!’s Messiah Rhodes caught up with Forgiato Blow, a pro-Trump rapper, who debuted his video, “Trump Trump Baby,” featuring Amber Rose, at the RNC, a day after she spoke. This is what he said to Messiah.
FORGIATO BLOW: I’ve been supporting Trump, like, die-hard since 2015. Before that, I was with Rick Ross, French Montana, a lot of big-name rappers, had a lot of big-name songs, so I was already very successful in that side of the industry, you know, grinding my way in.
But Donald Trump was like the boss. You know what I mean? He’s getting money. He’s a rapper’s dream, you know? He’s out here now dodging bullets, getting indictments. He’s a real rapper.
But, you know, back in 2016, when he came in, it was just about proving people wrong. That’s one thing I’m big on. Nobody believed that he would be the president. He knocked that door down, right?
He’s very successful. He’s made a lot of money. He’s got the beautiful wife, nice cars. So, it was just, you know, being young, trying to chase that dream and be like Trump — you know what I’m saying? — and just have a positive role model to look up to. …
And even though at one time we didn’t see eye to eye, I could bring you in. Amber Rose, she spoke yesterday. She’s a model. She was big against Trump for years. I have a new video that just came out with her, a song called “Trump Trump Baby.” She’s on the song. It’s number eight on Billboard right now.
But the thing is, a lot of people don’t realize, like, we need new voters. Right? So, when these people — like, you know, we’re out here making all this content for Donald Trump and, you know, trying to sell Donald Trump on people, and they’re not buying it, and then, when they finally buy it five years later, and we’re like, “Boo! You can’t do it,” that hurts us. We need to get the new voters. We need new voters and to get people equal opportunity.
AMY GOODMAN: Soon after they spoke, rapper Forgiato Blow and Amber Rose took the stage of the RNC.
FORGIATO BLOW: Yeah, it’s the mayor of Magaville, baby! Amber Rose! Hey, you know who we voting for! We voting Donald Trump, baby. Donald Trump, baby. America needs saving. America needs saving! We voting Trump, Trump, baby. Trump, Trump, baby. November 5th we going crazy. November 5th we going crazy!
AMY GOODMAN: That’s rapper Forgiato Blow and Amber Rose, “Trump Trump Baby.” Professor Clarence Lusane, your response to the appeal that President Trump is making right now and what rapper Forgiato Blow is saying?
CLARENCE LUSANE: So, what we see with Forgiato Blow and Amber Rose, as well as the Black congressmembers, Republican congressmembers, that they’re bringing on stage is this effort to basically gaslight the Black community on what really has been the Donald Trump record. And so, what we see is this argument that the Democrats have for decades created the circumstances under which Black people are living in the worst conditions possible, and that somehow Donald Trump will be able to overcome that, although there’s literally no record of that.
Tim Scott, for example, who’s the senator from South Carolina, gave a speech on Monday where he argued that racism — America is not a racist country, that, essentially, racial discrimination, systemic and institutional, don’t exist. In fact, Tim Scott should look at his own state, South Carolina. South Carolina is one of the poorest states in the country, as are many of the states that are controlled by the Republican Party. In South Carolina, the governor is Republican. The two senators to the Congress are Republicans. Six out of the seven House members are Republican, James Clyburn being the exception. The state Legislature, controlled by Republicans. And what we see is this is a state where poverty is high, is above the national average. But then, when you break it down, about 9% to 10% of whites in the state fall under that poverty line, but almost 25%, almost a quarter, of Black people. How do you explain that? Tim Scott explains it by saying that, essentially, it’s those people’s fault. It has nothing to do with the policies of the state, has nothing to do with systemic racism.
But we’re talking generations of ways in which people, again, across these Republican states have been mired in poverty, and, again, disproportionately racialized. And if you look at educational attainment, you look at access to healthcare, in all of these situations, racial disparities tend to manifest. But none of this is being addressed by the Tim Scotts, the Ben Carsons, the Amber Roses and the other people of color that they’re putting on stage at the Republican convention, because those are inconvenient truths.
AMY GOODMAN: Clarence Lusane, I want to thank you for being with us, political science professor at Howard University, director of the International Affairs Program there. His piece in The Nation, we’ll link to, headlined “Don’t Believe Trump When He Claims He’s Not Racist.”
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